SBP Interview - If You’re Not Selling Hours, What Are You Selling?
EP 244 · Oct 13, 2026 · 58 min · Marc & V
0:00 / 58:17
The short version
Everybody in this industry is arguing about what AI does to an agency. Almost all of it is agencies talking to themselves about their own cost structure. Clients are asking something else entirely.
So Marc and V put the real question to two of the people growing Canada’s agency business while the ground moves under it: if you are not selling hours, what are you selling?
Mélanie Dunn is President of Plus Company Canada and CEO of Cossette. Karine Courtemanche is EVP of Plus Company Canada and President of its media group, Strategy’s 2024 Media Leader of the Year, Chair of the Canadian Media Directors’ Council.
Inside the conversation: why clients now buy a connected system of tools rather than time, and why the shift off billable hours is being stalled by clients, not agencies. The biggest myth in the business, and the KPI guarantee they sold three times out of hundreds of clients. Why your agency’s tech stack is now a reason to hire them. In-housing done for the right and wrong reasons. Rethinking talent when the pyramid is gone and a junior can mentor a senior. And a genuine cry for help on supporting Canadian media, where the gap between an ethical placement and a cheaper one is often marginal.
The through line: agencies are being pushed to stop selling time and start selling judgment, and nobody has solved how you build judgment at scale.
Enjoy the episode!
Our Guests:
Mélanie Dunn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dunnmelanie/
Karine Courtemanche: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karine-courtemanche-64896330/
Chapters:
00:00 The best time to be in this business
00:46 Barbell or pyramid? Setting up the debate
02:43 What is the role of a modern agency?
06:51 What clients actually buy now: a system, not hours
09:25 If you're not selling time, what are you selling?
12:51 The biggest myth: agencies do want outcomes
15:15 Why outcome models stall: predictability and risk
17:45 Attribution as the missing accountability layer
19:16 Choosing an agency on its tools, not just its people
22:05 Three conditions for integration that actually works
23:57 In-housing, for the right reasons
27:08 Why there is no single agency model
29:22 Building operational platforms, not just media tools
31:36 AI, governance, and building the same tool twice
34:19 Rethinking talent when the pyramid is gone
36:44 Hiring now: references, soft skills, hard questions
45:30 Monday takeaways: governance as an enabler
49:13 A cry for help on Canadian media
57:02 Calgary, and the centre of the world
Chapters
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Transcript
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SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Sleeping Baba podcast.
SPEAKER_06: People are saying it's the worst possible time to get into our business. AI's gonna take all of our jobs, and so on and so on. The best time to retire is actually. I think it's the more fun I've had in my career so far. Because the cost barrier isn't there. The reason why agency didn't build it is because they couldn't, it was super expensive.
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Sleeping Barber Podcast, a place for business leaders to get the best and most credible information on marketing, strategy, and innovation. Your hosts, Mark Bakley and Vasilia Stuart, share their experiences as they gather inside the world's leading experts. Now, on with the show.